The Empire Strikes Back in The Movies Forum

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The Empire Strikes Back

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sabacc72	The Empire Strikes Back		Lead	[-]
Posts: 6068 Mon, Jan 16, 2006 1:28 AM Consul - Orlando System Baron Admin	Tags : None Ben: If you choose to face Vader, you will do it alone. I cannot interfere. Can't he... or won't he? I know Yoda and Ben don't want Luke to leave Dagobah to follow Vader's bait, but once he indeed goes, why doesn't he receive any help from Ben? As he's half-dead below Cloud City Luke even calls for his mentor, "Ben... Ben, please," to no end. -Campbell
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RogueScribner	Re: The Empire Strikes Back	#1	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1278 Mon, Jan 16, 2006 2:00 AM *St. Charles, MO*	Especially weird considering the original idea for the end fight in ROTJ was for the spirits of Yoda and Obi-Wan to manifest and kick a little darkside butt! I'm guessing that Luke was tapping into his darker nature in going after Vader and Yoda and Obi-Wan couldn't have any part of that. Or maybe they were just hoping if they refused to help he'd stay. At any rate, I think Ben was dishing out a little of that "tough love" those kids are high about these days.
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DrkSithLord	Re: The Empire Strikes Back	#2	[url]	[-]
Posts: 56 Mon, Jan 16, 2006 11:38 AM Tusken Raider	I guess I never thought that they were going to help. I just figured that Luke had to do it on his own to prove himself. A differant version of the trials for Jedi. You know what is strange now that I think of it. In the OT Ben and Yoda come to Luke a few times and give him some help and suggestions. But according to Yoda in ROTS he had to teach Obi Wan how to contact Qui Gon. So Luke needed no training? I guess they just made themselves visable for Luke?
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sabacc72	Re: The Empire Strikes Back	#3	[url]	[-]
Posts: 6068 Mon, Jan 16, 2006 6:01 PM Consul - Orlando System Baron Admin	*Quote:* So Luke needed no training? Interesting question. Another in a line of issues with the speed of Luke's mastery of the Force. I can only justify it by believing that Luke truly did maintain if not exceed his father's legacy. He may not be the Chosen One, but he very well may be the strongest Jedi yet. Perhaps it's the will of the Force, something akin to Highlander, when there are fewer gifted practioners there's more extreme power to be wielded.
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Eofer Draijonsai	Re: The Empire Strikes Back	#4	[url]	[-]
Posts: 835 Tue, Jan 17, 2006 9:59 AM *Kissimmee*	*Quote:* when there are fewer gifted practioners there's more extreme power to be wielded I kinda like this and feel the same way. I always thought Luke had achieved a mastery of the force much too fast with considerably less training and tutelage. He may have had two of the most powerful jedi to learn from but it all happened in a few years as opposed to most of his life like other jedi. The idea that it was more concentrated in Luke because there were no others to focus it is so far the only way to make sense of it, for me that is.
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DarthCaves	Re: The Empire Strikes Back	#5	[url]	[-]
Posts: 378 Sat, Jan 21, 2006 3:05 AM Okeechobee	Luke did go from a whining farm boy to a jedi master in a very short time. Like some pointed out, almost too short of a time. But we can consider it possible for serveral reasons. He did have Yoda and Ben to help teach him. Although the training was brief, they were two of the greatest Jedi ever. Also, he was his father's son. Which could have made Luke's midi-clorian count higher than anyone's except Anakin's and Leia's. Also, you have to take a look at Padme. Altough she was not force sensitive, she was very strong willed. She also advanced quickly into politics. So he and especially Leia, has that ambition the same as Padme. So with the raw force that Luke inherited from his father, as well as the teachings he did recieve; plus being the son of Padme, he could have excelled that quickly. But that is just my two cents, I am sure we all have an opinion on it Walt If you will not fight, then you will meet your destiny. - Lord Vader
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DarthCaves	Re: The Empire Strikes Back	#6	[url]	[-]
Posts: 378 Sun, Feb 5, 2006 4:17 AM Okeechobee	I am watching ESB, and I just had to throw in that it is a great movie. The best SW movie made. I mean, we get the truth of Luke's father, we are introduced to Yoda and Lando. I just wanted to say again, great movie Walt If you will not fight, then you will meet your destiny. - Lord Vader
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RogueScribner	Re: The Empire Strikes Back	#7	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1278 Sun, Feb 5, 2006 4:25 AM *St. Charles, MO*	Meh, I could take it or leave it.
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DarthCaves	Re: The Empire Strikes Back	#8	[url]	[-]
Posts: 378 Sun, Feb 5, 2006 4:48 AM Okeechobee	Well Rogue, what is your fav? do you have one? Walt If you will not fight, then you will meet your destiny. - Lord Vader
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RogueScribner	Re: The Empire Strikes Back	#9	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1278 Sun, Feb 5, 2006 4:49 AM *St. Charles, MO*	This movie is my favorite, hence the " ".
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DarthCaves	Re: The Empire Strikes Back	#10	[url]	[-]
Posts: 378 Sun, Feb 5, 2006 4:54 AM Okeechobee	Gottcha, I think it is probably the fav of most of us. It is just a classic. Walt If you will not fight, then you will meet your destiny. - Lord Vader
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Darthovsky	Re: The Empire Strikes Back	#11	[url]	[-]
Posts: 400 Sun, Feb 5, 2006 5:00 AM Casselberry	Good thoughts here. It is kinda weird that Ben almost seems like he's temporarily boycotting Luke. "Aint gonna help, wouldn't be prudent." And I agree that at least part of it can be explained by the fact that Luke is dancing with the dark side. I think that the thought is that Luke is doing this WAY too quick, and doing too much on his own, so that only a very strong/pure mind could possibly resist the temptations of the darkside. I agree with Campbell's post somewhere else, that Luke's Dagobah training seems quick, but that the Millenium Falcon's trek to the Lando System probably took longer than it seems. I have to rewatch Empire, but I'm thinking that this was kind of a tiny movie-making "blunder", that they didn't do a good job of conveying the passage of time. Or, maybe they did, but it disrupted the flow of the movie so much, that they opted for the least-worse of possible moviemaking alternatives. We all probably know that movies really are a flow of emotions, so, unlike books, alot of scenes seem more out of place if they don't fit in to the emotional roll of the audience. Empire is a great movie, but I'm one of the rare folk that like ROTJ better. I like the resolution, I like the adventurous, positive nature of Jedi. It was a nice relief from the depressing darkness of Empire. And the orig Star Wars film is my favorite scifi movie of alltime.
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RogueScribner	Re: The Empire Strikes Back	#12	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1278 Sun, Feb 5, 2006 5:11 AM *St. Charles, MO*	I don't think the timeline has ever been firmly established, but I would image that a couple of weeks passed on Dagobah while the Falcon limped to Bespin, if not a couple of months. If there official star charts for the GFFA then it should be simple enough to chart the time it would take to travel from the Hoth system to Bespin without a hyperdrive.
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sabacc72	Re: The Empire Strikes Back	#13	[url]	[-]
Posts: 6068 Sun, Feb 5, 2006 6:22 AM Consul - Orlando System Baron Admin	In the comic book ESB Infinities there was an endorsement, of sorts, that much time had passed. In the book Han (replacing Luke, who'd been killed on Hoth) was trained by Yoda for approximately two months.
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kyzman	Re: The Empire Strikes Back	#14	[url]	[-]
Posts: 717 Sun, Feb 5, 2006 5:50 PM *Deltona*	Still...2 months to train in a lifestyle that took others their lifetime to build on?
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Darthovsky	Re: The Empire Strikes Back	#15	[url]	[-]
Posts: 400 Sun, Feb 5, 2006 6:57 PM Casselberry	I guess the answer may be "yes, definitely." That would make Luke like the typical Tom Cruise character, or Rocky Balboa type character. We all know this formula as the kid outta nowhere who's got more raw talent than any other person ever. Alot of us, myself included, probably had some kind of childhood fantasy like this. And the talk about Luke at the bottom of Bespin reminds me that he had just travelled through what can only be considered as the city's intestines. He was stuck there as an irritation on the butthole of the city, just as if he were ... hemorhoids. I still am not sure why Lucas kept returning to this theme.
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sabacc72	Re: The Empire Strikes Back	#16	[url]	[-]
Posts: 6068 Sun, Feb 5, 2006 7:04 PM Consul - Orlando System Baron Admin	I agree, it's a hard nut to crack. Could it be that Luke knew just enough tricks to get him through the specific tasks to get to the Emperor's throne room? Sure he had potential, but perhaps that was little fulfilled even by the end of Episode VI. I prefer to add the notion that the Jedi of the Prequels were too centered on dogma and rules to develop at the pace Luke did. Yoda acknowledged this to a minor extent by saying there were other methods to gaining wisdom than growing up in the Temple. The Jedi may not be guilty of the lies spread by Palpatine, but they were arrogant and had lost their abilities to a certain degree (Mace and Yoda talk about it).
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RogueScribner	Re: The Empire Strikes Back	#17	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1278 Sun, Feb 5, 2006 7:14 PM *St. Charles, MO*	Luke had raw talent that exploded once he began to have an understanding of the Force. Yoda trained him 24/7 on Dagobah, so Luke at least had the basics of Force and lightsaber usage down. Remember, he went to Bespin and FAILED. He wasn't done training and it's only by virtue of the fact that Luke had some raw talent (thank you Daddy Chosen One!) and that Vader didn't really want to kill him anyway that Luke survived. Some additional time passed between TESB and ROTJ where Luke obviously did some independent study (he showcased new abilities, used a new lightsaber, and seemed more confident in his powers). I don't know if a Jedi for Dummies book existed at the time, but he certainly continued his training to some extent before returning to Dagobah (what, no phone call?). Luke got lucky in TESB. Though his powers were considerable in ROTJ, his spirit was the key factor and that's why he succeeded where his father had failed.
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sabacc72	Re: The Empire Strikes Back	#18	[url]	[-]
Posts: 6068 Sun, Feb 5, 2006 8:13 PM Consul - Orlando System Baron Admin	Excellent interpretation. One of my favorite parts of Empire illustrates Luke's failing. He says, "You'll find I'm full of surprises," and loses his weapon almost instantly.
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Darthovsky	Re: The Empire Strikes Back	#19	[url]	[-]
Posts: 400 Mon, Feb 6, 2006 1:51 AM Casselberry	Yeah, I think you guys have Empire pegged down very well. www.idontmeantolooklikeabrownnoser.com
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DarthCaves	Re: The Empire Strikes Back	#20	[url]	[-]
Posts: 378 Mon, Feb 6, 2006 3:12 AM Okeechobee	I agree with you Rogue. If you read my post that I wrote in this thread on 1/21, I basically said the same thing. Luke, in part, grew up and matured because of who his parents were. Walt If you will not fight, then you will meet your destiny. - Lord Vader
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